What is the test for misconduct to tell the jury presumption of innocence was gone when the jury began deliberating?

charges read and, once jury heard all evidence, presumption was gone]; People v. Dowdell, supra, 227 Cal.App.4th at pp. 1407-1408 [misconduct to tell jurors defendant received fair trial, evidence of guilt was overwhelming, and presumption of innocence was over]; U.S. v. Perlaza (9th Cir. 2006) 439 F.3d 1149, 1169-1170 [misconduct to tell jury presumption of innocence would vanish when jurors started deliberating and presumption of guilt would take over].)